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welcome to the skeptic Zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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[Applause]

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yes it's the skeptic Zone podcast

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episode number 761 for the 7th of May

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2023 Richard Saunders coming to you from

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Calgary Alberta Canada at the weekend

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reason convention I have just given a

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talk and I got nobody booed which was

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very encouraging I'm with I'm with

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Adrian Hill hello Adrian hey how's it

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going good and Celestia wood hi hey

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Richard hey from squaring the strains

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that's right yep out here in Calgary

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I've been enjoying the wonderful

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hospitality of Adrian Hill skeptic Zone

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Ace reporter and uh I do want to share

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with your listeners there was one moment

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that happened during your talk that I I

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know that during Adrian's talk that I

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wish I had been recording from the back

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of the room I was sitting with you and

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Adrian announced to the room of

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calgarians here yes that Richard had not

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really been into Canadian maple syrup he

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had he had all always used Australian

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maple syrup and an entire room of

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Canadians turned around and went oh

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the blasphemy I had to walk out in shame

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I did but then they all found out you

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had been converted to the Canadian maple

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syrup so your conversion was witnessed

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and celebrated

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a religious a semi-religious experience

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so if I was going really well yeah it's

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been a blast we had a pub night last

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night very successful more than double

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what we expected and a lot of spoons a

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lot of spoons bent and some origami made

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and a quiz show or that show a trivia

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night it was very good and today I'm

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relieved and relaxed now because I did

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my talk me too me too so I was just so

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worried yeah I've got a couple hours

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before I'll get mine out of the way but

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hopefully I'll be teaching everybody a

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little bit about how to apply good PR

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principles to skeptical stories and

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don't forget to listen to squaring the

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strange of course absolutely absolutely

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coming up on this week's episode of the

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skeptic Zone we report from the weekend

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oh we're doing that right now we report

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from the weekend reason conference with

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Adrian Hill and Celestia Ward it's a

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self-fulfilling prophecy you see you're

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a psychic after that it's the Australian

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Skeptics newsletter read by Adrian Hill

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Adrian Hill absolutely and then it's the

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book of Tim and this week him interviews

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me about investigations he turned the

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tables on me he turned the microphones

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then to uh round off the show oh no

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before that we have UFO car wash with

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Brian Dunning Brian Dunning and I were

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abducted by a UFO and we took the

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opportunity to talk about his new

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documentary that's coming up but yes to

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round off the show we go back to the

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Trove archives where we look at the

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relationship between Sir Arthur Conan

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Doyle and Harry Houdini

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how about that but now my friends it's

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time for us to run around the corner

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head down the hall and do you think

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there's any of that velvet was it was it

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red velvet red velvet cake Yes red

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velvet cake with blueberries on top

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there's some of that left we'll find out

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soon but why we do that we hope you

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enjoy the skeptic Zone

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[Music]

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thank you

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[Music]

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hello everyone this is Adrian Hill from

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Canada here to read the highlights from

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the Australian Skeptics newsletter this

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is newsletter number 172.

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you can subscribe to this newsletter and

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get it delivered to your inbox every

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other week complete with links to all

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the stories just visit

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www.skeptics.com dot a u

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but now let's see what Tim Mendham has

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for us this week

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hi all says Tim

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details from skepticon 2023 are being

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posted a call for papers is out for

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various formats we look forward to

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seeing you in Melbourne on December 2nd

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through 3rd

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more immediately we have all the usual

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issues of altmed dangers expert

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escapades and how good is the plague

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double thumbs up emojis not included

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not to mention how you should tap into

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the

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Paranormal and let your dog make all of

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your important Life Choices paw a normal

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really Tim

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does that mean I have to ask my dog

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Jewel about Life Choices interesting and

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as always you can go to our Facebook

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page for more interesting stories read

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on Tim

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update skepticon 2023 call for papers

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the Victorian Skeptics organizers of

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this year's Australian Skeptics National

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annual convention or skepticon have put

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out a call for papers skepticon 2023

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will be held at the brain Center

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Melbourne University on December 2nd

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through 3rd full details are gradually

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being rolled out on the skepticon

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who's pseudoscience problem

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in trying to ensure everyone has access

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to health care the World Health

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Organization promotes Homeopathy

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traditional Chinese medicine and quote

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warning to pregnant women over TCM

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researchers from Shanghai examined the

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health of babies born to 16 000 women

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across the country babies born to women

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who underwent traditional treatments

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while pregnant were twice as likely to

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have birth defects compared to mothers

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who did not

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foreign

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of Barbara O'Neill's salty prognosis

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a pithy and telling response to band's

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naturopath Barbara O'Neill's diatribe

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against salt believe it or not she

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doesn't know what she's talking about

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[Music]

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pint of science

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May 22nd through 24th 15 cities across

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Australia plus 26 countries around the

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world are to take part in pints of

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Science in Australia that means science

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engagement primarily through a national

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festival that comprises a range of

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events looking at all disciplines of

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science including interesting and

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relevant talks on the latest science

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research that are accessible to all

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how science and politics are bringing an

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end to ufology

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quote what ufologists want more than

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anything

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besides actual proof of

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extraterrestrials is for serious people

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to pay serious attention to them end

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quote the problem being of course that

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once you get really serious

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investigations by real scientists you

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get real results

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on a side note I hear from Richard

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Saunders that the rough edit of quote

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the UFO movie they don't want you to see

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end quote by Brian Dunning is looking

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very impressive

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[Music]

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we are working on the June issue of the

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skeptic Magazine with a look at the

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legal and financial goings-on of the

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anti-vaccination movement in the

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meantime the March issue is out and

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about and if I was really Canadian I'd

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say oh in the boot

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if you haven't subscribed yet now is the

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time to do so you can sign up for a hard

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copy or digital Edition or both since

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the digital is offered free to those who

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take up the hard copy version contact

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the editor if you're not sure of your

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items of Interest

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New York city mayor discusses Haunted

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Mansion the city that never sleeps even

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after death apparently

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a list of the 10 most expensive horror

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movies ever made which goes to show that

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high budget doesn't guarantee high

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quality

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Brits believe dogs are psychic

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guessing a few Canadians might think

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that too

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more than eight in ten British dog

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owners think their pet has psychic

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powers a new study reveals and 65

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percent say they let their paranormal

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Pooch make some decisions for them oh

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dear this might explain a lot until next

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time this is Adrian Hill who has to run

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upstairs get in my car and go to the

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airport to pick up Richard Saunders so

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thank you

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again

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[Music]

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and now a reading from the book of Tim

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[Music]

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with Tim Mendham

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[Music]

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hi my name is Tim Mendham I'm the editor

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of Australian Skeptics magazine the

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skeptic and I'm also executive officer

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of Australian skeptic sink

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first of all I'd like to interview

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someone you may have heard of Richard

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Sanders hello yes yes originally we can

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talk about investigations yes okay I

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thought I'd surprise you on this one

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thank you it's rare I'm a visitor in the

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book of Tim but here you go the

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interesting thing is that from the very

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first issues of the skeptic magazine

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very first activities it was always

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about investigations right someone would

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you'd hear about something and then

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you'd follow it up right okay now Mr

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Sanders you are actually

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you're correctly are you chicken Colonel

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Sanders yes you were actually the chief

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investigator for Australians you have

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been for some time actually when you're

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not being president

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when they're doing other things actually

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but I mean it's interesting the range of

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Investigations we've had oh yeah and

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they change

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I mean I've never investigated a psychic

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surgeon for example yeah I've seen

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demonstrations of it but done by

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magicians on people like that yeah I've

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I've only seen magicians do it yeah but

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the interesting thing is of course we

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have a hundred thousand dollar challenge

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which is for people who come to us

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claiming a particular power and then we

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can test them and we've done hundreds of

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those we have yeah yeah

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a notice actually the very first issue

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of the magazine they refer to the famous

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James Randy Dick Smith's test the water

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diviners they said they had over 100

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people applying

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but a lot of them weren't diviners a lot

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of them were psychics and things they

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were all applied when Dick laid out the

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uh the challenge I'm out Dick Smith yeah

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yeah so it was interesting so there's

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been quite a lot of people going through

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tests then there are people that we

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approach yes right and that's more the

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investigations thing yeah well yes yes

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in fact right now I'm going to do a

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little report for you about

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uh something that just happened last

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night did you were you aware that there

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was a revelation worldwide revelation of

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new knowledge imparted to us last night

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no I didn't realize that there you go

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Richard

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was it exciting it was it was by a group

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called creative Society

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amongst other claims is the cure for

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cancer excellent we've always wanted one

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of those so that's the sort of thing

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that we we look into when these claims

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come along and so some of them are

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actually sort of a bit sort of like

281
00:13:27,170 --> 00:13:25,440
desktop or sort of armchair

282
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:27,180
investigations but others that we

283
00:13:29,750 --> 00:13:28,440
actually go out and see people yeah

284
00:13:31,610 --> 00:13:29,760
right and you've done quite a few of

285
00:13:34,129 --> 00:13:31,620
those in your time yeah yeah from Palm

286
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,139
readers to well mostly water diviners I

287
00:13:38,990 --> 00:13:36,000
guess but also one of my favorites is

288
00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:39,000
weeping walls yeah you know what I was

289
00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:42,300
invited by a TV crew many years ago to

290
00:13:48,230 --> 00:13:44,480
go to a house where the Weeping and

291
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:48,240
I I saw them turning it into such a

292
00:13:54,590 --> 00:13:52,079
circus and the people involved was were

293
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:54,600
a bit too passionate for my liking so I

294
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:56,160
didn't go to that one that was the one

295
00:13:59,870 --> 00:13:58,320
where they had a their teenage son got

296
00:14:01,550 --> 00:13:59,880
killed in a car crash yes her memory

297
00:14:03,889 --> 00:14:01,560
something like that you went twice I

298
00:14:06,650 --> 00:14:03,899
believe to that because it's initially

299
00:14:09,290 --> 00:14:06,660
was announced and then later on yeah no

300
00:14:11,030 --> 00:14:09,300
it had a Resurgence I was approached at

301
00:14:12,650 --> 00:14:11,040
least twice by the TV networks yeah but

302
00:14:14,870 --> 00:14:12,660
I never went to the house it's possible

303
00:14:16,550 --> 00:14:14,880
our friend and challenge coordinator Ian

304
00:14:18,829 --> 00:14:16,560
Bryce did I'll have to ask him about

305
00:14:20,389 --> 00:14:18,839
that I've got it in the archives or the

306
00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:20,399
story about the Weeping walls it's also

307
00:14:23,870 --> 00:14:22,200
been published in the magazine yeah so

308
00:14:26,030 --> 00:14:23,880
you know we published everything they

309
00:14:28,310 --> 00:14:26,040
weren't writings people were drawing

310
00:14:29,870 --> 00:14:28,320
initials on the wall in oil and as I

311
00:14:31,009 --> 00:14:29,880
said to one of the TV reporters if their

312
00:14:33,290 --> 00:14:31,019
initials are written on the wall

313
00:14:36,110 --> 00:14:33,300
someone's written them you know I mean

314
00:14:37,970 --> 00:14:36,120
it wasn't real too well

315
00:14:39,889 --> 00:14:37,980
anyway yeah but um I love doing

316
00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:39,899
investigations but they the true

317
00:14:43,430 --> 00:14:42,060
investigations don't come along as often

318
00:14:44,689 --> 00:14:43,440
as I thought they would be when I joined

319
00:14:46,310 --> 00:14:44,699
I mean it's not every night we're going

320
00:14:47,389 --> 00:14:46,320
to a haunted house or something I think

321
00:14:49,129 --> 00:14:47,399
one of the interesting things you look

322
00:14:52,129 --> 00:14:49,139
back at these old issues of the magazine

323
00:14:53,629 --> 00:14:52,139
like volume one number one and the I've

324
00:14:56,090 --> 00:14:53,639
just had a look through the last the

325
00:14:58,370 --> 00:14:56,100
first 10 years of the magazines and

326
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:58,380
there's a lot of occasions there where

327
00:15:01,730 --> 00:15:00,180
they visited people and they did I think

328
00:15:03,650 --> 00:15:01,740
it was in the early days of the Skeptics

329
00:15:05,930 --> 00:15:03,660
yeah Skeptics were a bit of a novelty

330
00:15:08,449 --> 00:15:05,940
right and the people who were making

331
00:15:10,009 --> 00:15:08,459
claims were a lot more naive I think

332
00:15:11,689 --> 00:15:10,019
yeah even just we're talking about only

333
00:15:12,949 --> 00:15:11,699
decades ago but I think they were very

334
00:15:15,110 --> 00:15:12,959
different well I've certainly

335
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:15,120
investigated people who I would

336
00:15:20,389 --> 00:15:17,760
tried to politely say were in my opinion

337
00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:20,399
naive yes yeah the genuine the the

338
00:15:23,629 --> 00:15:22,260
people who genuinely think they've got

339
00:15:25,189 --> 00:15:23,639
the special powers so the interesting

340
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:25,199
the claims are often pretty naive you

341
00:15:29,389 --> 00:15:26,880
think all right okay debunk in five

342
00:15:30,710 --> 00:15:29,399
seconds half of those things they're a

343
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,720
bit more difficult these days they're a

344
00:15:34,550 --> 00:15:33,120
lot more technical a lot of them yeah I

345
00:15:36,470 --> 00:15:34,560
mean you

346
00:15:38,329 --> 00:15:36,480
it's been such a long time since I've

347
00:15:40,430 --> 00:15:38,339
been on a proper field investigation

348
00:15:42,710 --> 00:15:40,440
partly because of covert I guess

349
00:15:44,629 --> 00:15:42,720
but they can be very very complex things

350
00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:44,639
to try and unpick and that's that's why

351
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:46,440
you know we're not afraid to seek the

352
00:15:50,930 --> 00:15:48,600
advice of specialists in a certain field

353
00:15:52,730 --> 00:15:50,940
of technology or physics or something

354
00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:52,740
like that yeah I just thought I'd be

355
00:15:56,750 --> 00:15:54,180
interesting to point out that we do do a

356
00:15:58,430 --> 00:15:56,760
lot of field work we're not just sitting

357
00:16:00,350 --> 00:15:58,440
in front of a microphone as I've said

358
00:16:03,050 --> 00:16:00,360
many times on on the skeptic Zone and

359
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,060
and when I'm interviewed uh don't call

360
00:16:06,410 --> 00:16:05,279
us armchair Skeptics we're not we go out

361
00:16:08,629 --> 00:16:06,420
and see Frozen

362
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:08,639
yeah okay well thank you Mr Sanders

363
00:16:17,660 --> 00:16:11,040
that's great okay I'm going back to get

364
00:16:24,350 --> 00:16:20,829
[Music]

365
00:16:26,329 --> 00:16:24,360
oh Russ yeah oh I'm glad I found you in

366
00:16:29,030 --> 00:16:26,339
line these clouds are really freaking me

367
00:16:32,210 --> 00:16:29,040
out I hate having to stand in line and

368
00:16:33,710 --> 00:16:32,220
boy these giraffes do not smell good no

369
00:16:35,210 --> 00:16:33,720
they do not and they have such short

370
00:16:37,009 --> 00:16:35,220
necks but I'm hearing we need to get on

371
00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:37,019
this side gotta get on the ark because

372
00:16:40,189 --> 00:16:38,820
it's about to rain God is about to

373
00:16:42,949 --> 00:16:40,199
destroy Humanity

374
00:16:44,449 --> 00:16:42,959
hey oh sorry sorry are you Noah yeah I

375
00:16:46,430 --> 00:16:44,459
know we look like humans but we're

376
00:16:48,110 --> 00:16:46,440
actually yes we're podcasters we are

377
00:16:49,430 --> 00:16:48,120
podcasters so it's different have you

378
00:16:51,710 --> 00:16:49,440
heard of Ono Ross and Kerry we

379
00:16:53,449 --> 00:16:51,720
investigate spirituality claims of the

380
00:16:54,710 --> 00:16:53,459
Paranormal stuff like that and you have

381
00:16:56,329 --> 00:16:54,720
a boat and say the world's gonna end so

382
00:16:59,090 --> 00:16:56,339
seem like something for us to check out

383
00:17:01,129 --> 00:16:59,100
we would love to be on the boat we came

384
00:17:09,650 --> 00:17:01,139
two by two what do you think owner Ross

385
00:17:09,660 --> 00:17:27,949
foreign

386
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:29,330
I don't know what's happening I think

387
00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:32,220
we've been abducted by a UFO I'm with

388
00:17:35,810 --> 00:17:34,559
Brian Dunning

389
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:35,820
back

390
00:17:44,690 --> 00:17:38,400
I went in too far and we're trying to

391
00:17:50,990 --> 00:17:48,529
and this is an intelligent car wash

392
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,000
it says we hope to stop it's okay and

393
00:17:54,950 --> 00:17:53,039
the door's shutting in front of us the

394
00:17:58,970 --> 00:17:54,960
door shut behind us we don't know what

395
00:18:02,330 --> 00:18:00,409
this is a bit of a strange experience

396
00:18:04,730 --> 00:18:02,340
Brian but you're you're used to strange

397
00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:04,740
experiences aren't you I suppose so

398
00:18:10,549 --> 00:18:07,080
um I don't know what that means but yes

399
00:18:15,049 --> 00:18:12,650
it's all happening around us it's a it's

400
00:18:16,150 --> 00:18:15,059
a little bit surreal now I had the great

401
00:18:18,350 --> 00:18:16,160
uh

402
00:18:20,930 --> 00:18:18,360
pleasure last night of seeing a preview

403
00:18:23,330 --> 00:18:20,940
of your movie the UFO movie yes they

404
00:18:25,730 --> 00:18:23,340
don't they don't want you to see and I

405
00:18:27,350 --> 00:18:25,740
hope I hope that you're quite quite

406
00:18:29,630 --> 00:18:27,360
pleased with it I'm very pleased with it

407
00:18:31,850 --> 00:18:29,640
yes I'm it's the best work I've ever

408
00:18:33,650 --> 00:18:31,860
done and it's in the hands of

409
00:18:35,870 --> 00:18:33,660
professionals doing the color and the

410
00:18:37,909 --> 00:18:35,880
sound and all that stuff that's you know

411
00:18:40,070 --> 00:18:37,919
going to be professional quality I'm

412
00:18:42,830 --> 00:18:40,080
super super happy about it what's your

413
00:18:45,890 --> 00:18:42,840
main aim why why would you put together

414
00:18:49,810 --> 00:18:45,900
another UFO movie I'm trying to get the

415
00:18:52,430 --> 00:18:49,820
people who are UFO True Believers to

416
00:18:54,049 --> 00:18:52,440
inform their beliefs a little bit better

417
00:18:57,470 --> 00:18:54,059
with real science

418
00:19:00,049 --> 00:18:57,480
that's the basic thing yeah

419
00:19:01,610 --> 00:19:00,059
um it's not a debunking movie because

420
00:19:03,169 --> 00:19:01,620
that's just going to turn people off and

421
00:19:06,110 --> 00:19:03,179
it won't have any audience

422
00:19:07,789 --> 00:19:06,120
uh it's not a you know it's not a pure

423
00:19:10,370 --> 00:19:07,799
skeptic movie it's certainly not a

424
00:19:12,549 --> 00:19:10,380
credulous movie yeah it's intended to

425
00:19:14,690 --> 00:19:12,559
inform your opinion with better science

426
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:14,700
whoever you are whatever your feelings

427
00:19:19,850 --> 00:19:17,520
on UFOs are I

428
00:19:22,010 --> 00:19:19,860
you know having seen it and just I tried

429
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:22,020
to watch it critically and coldly but I

430
00:19:26,650 --> 00:19:23,760
loved it it was really informative great

431
00:19:28,850 --> 00:19:26,660
people in it yeah I mean these wonderful

432
00:19:30,870 --> 00:19:28,860
scientists and commentators like our

433
00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:30,880
friend Mick West yeah

434
00:19:34,490 --> 00:19:32,580
[Music]

435
00:19:36,970 --> 00:19:34,500
I think we're about to take off I think

436
00:19:39,710 --> 00:19:36,980
circus

437
00:19:41,630 --> 00:19:39,720
friend uh but you you discovered some

438
00:19:43,730 --> 00:19:41,640
wonderful astronomers along the way yeah

439
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:43,740
especially yeah and

440
00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:44,880
those

441
00:19:50,450 --> 00:19:47,460
a couple of astrobiologists one

442
00:19:53,450 --> 00:19:50,460
astrophysicist in the movie got of

443
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:53,460
course Hal bidlock representing talking

444
00:19:57,650 --> 00:19:55,140
about

445
00:19:59,810 --> 00:19:57,660
missile events that happened back in the

446
00:20:02,090 --> 00:19:59,820
1960s that they're still talking about

447
00:20:02,990 --> 00:20:02,100
today in Congress

448
00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:03,000
um

449
00:20:06,169 --> 00:20:04,919
God yeah I'm spacing out there's so many

450
00:20:08,270 --> 00:20:06,179
people in the movie I think there's I

451
00:20:10,549 --> 00:20:08,280
think there's 10. I think that's right

452
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:10,559
sounds about right to me how can people

453
00:20:14,510 --> 00:20:12,960
at this stage still find out about the

454
00:20:16,610 --> 00:20:14,520
movie in the progress go to the

455
00:20:18,409 --> 00:20:16,620
ufo.movie

456
00:20:20,150 --> 00:20:18,419
and there's a place to put in your email

457
00:20:22,730 --> 00:20:20,160
it's just it just comes from me there's

458
00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:22,740
a tons of spam and whatever unsubscribe

459
00:20:27,650 --> 00:20:24,600
whenever you want but that's where all

460
00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:27,660
the updates get posted to the UFO dot

461
00:20:33,049 --> 00:20:30,600
movie email list that's the clue folks

462
00:20:35,270 --> 00:20:33,059
white I'm not sure what I think we are

463
00:20:37,190 --> 00:20:35,280
really being abducted by our UFO here at

464
00:20:39,049 --> 00:20:37,200
the moment it's it's quite surreal there

465
00:20:41,049 --> 00:20:39,059
are flashing lights and I've got a

466
00:20:44,090 --> 00:20:41,059
scratch I didn't know about

467
00:20:47,630 --> 00:20:44,100
well that can only be explained one way

468
00:20:49,610 --> 00:20:47,640
I think so midnight abduction

469
00:20:56,409 --> 00:20:49,620
it's over I think it's over thank you

470
00:21:00,710 --> 00:20:58,789
are you looking for a science-based

471
00:21:03,169 --> 00:21:00,720
medical podcast to answer all your

472
00:21:05,450 --> 00:21:03,179
questions about health check out the

473
00:21:07,610 --> 00:21:05,460
body of evidence whether you're curious

474
00:21:11,090 --> 00:21:07,620
about the potential benefits of Omega-3s

475
00:21:12,830 --> 00:21:11,100
or the potential risks of vaping we take

476
00:21:15,230 --> 00:21:12,840
a look at the body of evidence to

477
00:21:18,529 --> 00:21:15,240
separate the noise the hype the lies

478
00:21:20,450 --> 00:21:18,539
from actual scientific rigor we do it

479
00:21:21,830 --> 00:21:20,460
with comedy Skits the only logical thing

480
00:21:24,049 --> 00:21:21,840
to do is for me to take off all my

481
00:21:25,850 --> 00:21:24,059
clothes and run into the street no

482
00:21:29,570 --> 00:21:25,860
remember the first rule of podcasting

483
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:29,580
always keep your pants on with jingles

484
00:21:37,789 --> 00:21:36,049
by you know discussing what the evidence

485
00:21:41,029 --> 00:21:37,799
has to say on the topic at hand or

486
00:21:42,770 --> 00:21:41,039
unless that is a pill but yeah it has it

487
00:21:43,970 --> 00:21:42,780
has the side effects of bloating gas and

488
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:43,980
greasy stool which makes it very

489
00:21:49,130 --> 00:21:46,440
unpleasant the body of evidence find it

490
00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:49,140
at bodyofevidence.ca or on your favorite

491
00:21:55,010 --> 00:21:51,860
podcast app the body of evidence

492
00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:55,020
medicine that tastes funny and science

493
00:22:09,530 --> 00:22:01,900
thank you

494
00:22:09,540 --> 00:22:13,970
[Music]

495
00:22:20,529 --> 00:22:17,510
now it's time to once again dive back

496
00:22:23,029 --> 00:22:20,539
into those pages at Trove at

497
00:22:24,529 --> 00:22:23,039
trove.nla.gov.eu the online resource

498
00:22:27,610 --> 00:22:24,539
from the Australian government in the

499
00:22:33,289 --> 00:22:27,620
National Library of Australia which is a

500
00:22:35,810 --> 00:22:33,299
a reservoir a reservoir of our digital

501
00:22:36,909 --> 00:22:35,820
history when it comes to newspapers and

502
00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:36,919
magazines

503
00:22:43,010 --> 00:22:40,260
and many other printed uh printed

504
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,020
reports and other materials like Diaries

505
00:22:47,029 --> 00:22:45,720
and so on now over the past couple of

506
00:22:50,210 --> 00:22:47,039
weeks we'll be looking at various

507
00:22:53,270 --> 00:22:50,220
references to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle the

508
00:22:56,270 --> 00:22:53,280
creator of Sherlock Holmes this week

509
00:22:58,190 --> 00:22:56,280
inspired by A question put to me by

510
00:22:59,930 --> 00:22:58,200
Maynard a couple of weeks ago we're

511
00:23:02,210 --> 00:22:59,940
going to look at the relationship

512
00:23:04,610 --> 00:23:02,220
between the Arthur Conan Doyle a

513
00:23:08,270 --> 00:23:04,620
proponent of spiritualism and a

514
00:23:12,110 --> 00:23:08,280
paranormal and Harry Houdini the famed

515
00:23:18,529 --> 00:23:12,120
magician and escape artist and critic of

516
00:23:22,970 --> 00:23:20,149
now we've certainly looked at Harry

517
00:23:25,850 --> 00:23:22,980
Houdini before in the Trove segment when

518
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:25,860
it came to his adventures here in

519
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:28,320
Australia and according to some reports

520
00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:31,860
he was the first person to fly an

521
00:23:38,529 --> 00:23:35,100
airplane in this continent Harry Houdini

522
00:23:41,810 --> 00:23:38,539
apart from anything else was a very good

523
00:23:43,669 --> 00:23:41,820
uh self-promoter and of course Harry

524
00:23:45,529 --> 00:23:43,679
Houdini was famous for exposing the

525
00:23:48,770 --> 00:23:45,539
fakers the scammers and the charlatans

526
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:48,780
when it came to things like seances and

527
00:23:53,230 --> 00:23:50,240
in the

528
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:53,240
1920s they were rather theatrical

529
00:24:00,289 --> 00:23:57,120
affairs with uh mediums causing things

530
00:24:03,169 --> 00:24:00,299
like bells to ring and things to appear

531
00:24:05,890 --> 00:24:03,179
and trumpets to sound

532
00:24:09,830 --> 00:24:05,900
however he did have a friendship

533
00:24:12,110 --> 00:24:09,840
apparently not a lasting friendship with

534
00:24:16,010 --> 00:24:12,120
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and I've

535
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:16,020
discovered a paper here a report in the

536
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:19,919
guardian online by Lind Gardner this is

537
00:24:26,330 --> 00:24:23,520
dating back to 2015. Harry Houdini and

538
00:24:29,930 --> 00:24:26,340
Arthur Conan Doyle a friendship split by

539
00:24:34,430 --> 00:24:32,630
might seem an odd couple but a shared

540
00:24:38,770 --> 00:24:34,440
interest in the afterlife made for an

541
00:24:43,789 --> 00:24:38,780
unlikely Bond and bitter Rift

542
00:24:47,930 --> 00:24:43,799
and actually this story is by way of

543
00:24:51,110 --> 00:24:47,940
talking about a play was uh put on at

544
00:24:54,430 --> 00:24:51,120
the time in 2015 about these two men

545
00:24:57,529 --> 00:24:54,440
but briefly the two were drawn together

546
00:24:59,690 --> 00:24:57,539
by their Mutual Fame I guess they met up

547
00:25:01,070 --> 00:24:59,700
and their shared interest in

548
00:25:04,850 --> 00:25:01,080
spiritualism

549
00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:04,860
on one side of the coin or the other and

550
00:25:08,270 --> 00:25:06,600
The Story Goes On to talk about them

551
00:25:11,510 --> 00:25:08,280
coming to uh

552
00:25:15,110 --> 00:25:11,520
blows their friendship torn asunder when

553
00:25:18,970 --> 00:25:15,120
Houdini did not accept things like Sir

554
00:25:21,230 --> 00:25:18,980
Arthur Conan Doyle's wife was a medium

555
00:25:24,649 --> 00:25:21,240
and I've discovered a wonderful

556
00:25:27,190 --> 00:25:24,659
photograph of the two men in the 1920s

557
00:25:30,470 --> 00:25:27,200
both looking Splendid

558
00:25:33,769 --> 00:25:30,480
so Arthur towering above Harry Houdini

559
00:25:36,350 --> 00:25:33,779
was it was not very tall at all but

560
00:25:39,970 --> 00:25:36,360
let's go back to those archives uh the

561
00:25:43,909 --> 00:25:39,980
Australian newspapers and see what the

562
00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:43,919
reporters writers at the time made of

563
00:25:57,850 --> 00:25:54,529
[Music]

564
00:26:00,890 --> 00:25:57,860
so we turn to the pages of the munji and

565
00:26:04,669 --> 00:26:00,900
Northwestern representative what a great

566
00:26:06,270 --> 00:26:04,679
name for a newspaper from the 2nd of

567
00:26:08,649 --> 00:26:06,280
February 1925.

568
00:26:12,289 --> 00:26:08,659
[Music]

569
00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:12,299
Houdini attacked by Conan Doyle

570
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,419
Houdini the magician says he is thinking

571
00:26:20,450 --> 00:26:17,760
of taking legal action against Sir

572
00:26:22,430 --> 00:26:20,460
Arthur Conan Doyle because of attacks by

573
00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:22,440
saratha in an article in the Boston

574
00:26:26,510 --> 00:26:23,640
Herald

575
00:26:29,769 --> 00:26:26,520
the article was an answer to Houdini's

576
00:26:34,730 --> 00:26:29,779
criticism of the Boston medium margarine

577
00:26:36,710 --> 00:26:34,740
whose genuineness Houdini questioned Sir

578
00:26:38,990 --> 00:26:36,720
Arthur Conan Doyle defended the medium

579
00:26:41,930 --> 00:26:39,000
whom he had visited during his American

580
00:26:44,390 --> 00:26:41,940
travels Houdini has reportedly declared

581
00:26:46,549 --> 00:26:44,400
that his 35 years experience in the

582
00:26:49,070 --> 00:26:46,559
investigation of mediums had never

583
00:26:51,289 --> 00:26:49,080
revealed a genuine spiritual

584
00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:51,299
manifestation

585
00:26:55,850 --> 00:26:53,580
now a couple of years later in the

586
00:27:00,310 --> 00:26:55,860
evening news from Rockhampton in

587
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:00,320
Queensland on the 8th of January 1927

588
00:27:05,690 --> 00:27:04,080
dispute over Houdini trickery or occult

589
00:27:09,130 --> 00:27:05,700
power

590
00:27:13,130 --> 00:27:09,140
and this is not long after the uh the

591
00:27:16,789 --> 00:27:13,140
unfortunate death of Harry Houdini

592
00:27:19,310 --> 00:27:16,799
sir a Conan Doyle's opinion a question

593
00:27:22,070 --> 00:27:19,320
which is interesting spiritualistic

594
00:27:23,330 --> 00:27:22,080
circles today says the Westminster

595
00:27:27,350 --> 00:27:23,340
Gazette

596
00:27:30,110 --> 00:27:27,360
of November 13. concerns the enigmatic

597
00:27:33,769 --> 00:27:30,120
personality of Houdini the handcuffed

598
00:27:36,409 --> 00:27:33,779
King who died on October 30. it is held

599
00:27:38,930 --> 00:27:36,419
by one section that his performances

600
00:27:41,510 --> 00:27:38,940
were originally Conjuring tricks

601
00:27:45,830 --> 00:27:41,520
another section believes his tricks were

602
00:27:48,110 --> 00:27:45,840
accomplished by psychic force it is

603
00:27:50,690 --> 00:27:48,120
claimed by this party that Houdini's

604
00:27:54,850 --> 00:27:50,700
escape from locked chests nailed up

605
00:27:57,890 --> 00:27:54,860
boxes prison cells Etc were made by

606
00:28:00,049 --> 00:27:57,900
dematerialization a psychic phenomenon

607
00:28:04,490 --> 00:28:00,059
by which the body of an individual

608
00:28:06,049 --> 00:28:04,500
disappears in a physical form and is to

609
00:28:08,870 --> 00:28:06,059
a great extent

610
00:28:10,549 --> 00:28:08,880
freed from the limitations of the

611
00:28:13,610 --> 00:28:10,559
physical world

612
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:13,620
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle said the subject

613
00:28:18,409 --> 00:28:16,799
was not one he could treat lightly but

614
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:18,419
probably he would write a considered

615
00:28:22,130 --> 00:28:19,980
opinion on the matter

616
00:28:24,710 --> 00:28:22,140
the two views

617
00:28:27,110 --> 00:28:24,720
I do not wonder that when a man is

618
00:28:30,110 --> 00:28:27,120
nailed into a box and thrown into the

619
00:28:33,049 --> 00:28:30,120
sea and not only survives the ordeal but

620
00:28:36,590 --> 00:28:33,059
escapes from confinement there should be

621
00:28:39,409 --> 00:28:36,600
some talk of dematerialization said Sir

622
00:28:42,049 --> 00:28:39,419
Arthur if Houdini's tricks really were

623
00:28:45,169 --> 00:28:42,059
tricks then he stands as the champion

624
00:28:47,630 --> 00:28:45,179
trickster of all time if the phenomena

625
00:28:50,090 --> 00:28:47,640
depended on psychic power then it opens

626
00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:50,100
up the question how far a man is

627
00:28:55,010 --> 00:28:52,500
Justified in concealing the source of

628
00:28:59,149 --> 00:28:55,020
his power by making frenzied public

629
00:29:01,149 --> 00:28:59,159
attacks upon that source and I'll just

630
00:29:03,529 --> 00:29:01,159
quickly pause here to say I've seen this

631
00:29:05,510 --> 00:29:03,539
uh quite a few times myself when

632
00:29:06,710 --> 00:29:05,520
somebody doesn't understand how a trick

633
00:29:09,409 --> 00:29:06,720
works

634
00:29:11,810 --> 00:29:09,419
or they're inclined to believe in the

635
00:29:13,730 --> 00:29:11,820
Paranormal then

636
00:29:18,710 --> 00:29:13,740
they will leap to all sorts of

637
00:29:21,289 --> 00:29:18,720
conclusions uh this we saw notably with

638
00:29:23,149 --> 00:29:21,299
people insisting that Yuri Gala could

639
00:29:25,669 --> 00:29:23,159
really bend spoons

640
00:29:27,950 --> 00:29:25,679
because they didn't know the trick

641
00:29:29,810 --> 00:29:27,960
or they'll throw red herrings and Straw

642
00:29:32,510 --> 00:29:29,820
Men arguments about

643
00:29:34,130 --> 00:29:32,520
a classic with urugello as and I don't

644
00:29:36,049 --> 00:29:34,140
know if anybody really seriously

645
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:36,059
suggested this but Gala got a lot of

646
00:29:41,149 --> 00:29:38,399
mileage out of it he would claim that

647
00:29:42,710 --> 00:29:41,159
people said that he had laser beams in

648
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:42,720
his belt

649
00:29:48,529 --> 00:29:46,080
or he had acid on his fingers uh

650
00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:48,539
ridiculous comments but he was able to

651
00:29:53,570 --> 00:29:50,580
say look see my belt hasn't got a laser

652
00:29:55,190 --> 00:29:53,580
and look my fingers don't have acid

653
00:29:57,830 --> 00:29:55,200
we read on

654
00:30:00,769 --> 00:29:57,840
Houdini always asserted that he was a

655
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,779
trickster he was in fact a lifelong

656
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:03,360
opponent of this spiritual movement a

657
00:30:07,909 --> 00:30:05,700
correspondent States he's seen in New

658
00:30:10,909 --> 00:30:07,919
York Houdini's instructions to magicians

659
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,919
who intended to follow his work and in

660
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,720
which he attributes his methods to

661
00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:15,120
Ledger domain particular muscular

662
00:30:20,810 --> 00:30:17,700
development and the skillful employment

663
00:30:23,870 --> 00:30:20,820
of Confederates

664
00:30:25,310 --> 00:30:23,880
a quick pause here to say uh yes all

665
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:25,320
this makes perfect sense when you're

666
00:30:29,330 --> 00:30:26,580
doing a

667
00:30:31,789 --> 00:30:29,340
at heart a Conjuring performance an

668
00:30:33,590 --> 00:30:31,799
entertainment uh performance

669
00:30:36,289 --> 00:30:33,600
psychic power

670
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:36,299
so a Conan Doyle States in his book

671
00:30:42,070 --> 00:30:39,600
quote our American Adventure end quote

672
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:42,080
that Houdini although an avowed

673
00:30:49,970 --> 00:30:46,399
unbeliever gave unmistakable evidence of

674
00:30:52,010 --> 00:30:49,980
mediumistic qualities gifts which Sir

675
00:30:54,370 --> 00:30:52,020
Arthur said he endeavored to explain

676
00:30:57,289 --> 00:30:54,380
away on the most

677
00:31:00,710 --> 00:30:57,299
fredbear of excuses

678
00:31:03,409 --> 00:31:00,720
Mr Hewitt McKenzie of the and it's a

679
00:31:07,669 --> 00:31:03,419
shame that the next word starting with p

680
00:31:09,590 --> 00:31:07,679
is uh not clear at all so it's from the

681
00:31:12,590 --> 00:31:09,600
something College

682
00:31:15,289 --> 00:31:12,600
told a Westminster Gazette reporter that

683
00:31:18,049 --> 00:31:15,299
while he considered Houdini had distinct

684
00:31:20,289 --> 00:31:18,059
psychic power he did not think it was

685
00:31:23,570 --> 00:31:20,299
employed in his professional work

686
00:31:25,610 --> 00:31:23,580
seances are being held in an Endeavor to

687
00:31:28,669 --> 00:31:25,620
communicate with the spirit of Houdini

688
00:31:32,149 --> 00:31:28,679
in order that the question may be

689
00:31:34,630 --> 00:31:32,159
definitely settled to the satisfaction

690
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:34,640
of spiritualists

691
00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:36,960
Houdini's Secret

692
00:31:43,310 --> 00:31:40,080
by the will of Houdini the late Handcuff

693
00:31:45,370 --> 00:31:43,320
King his Library valued at one hundred

694
00:31:47,630 --> 00:31:45,380
thousand pounds goes to the American

695
00:31:49,909 --> 00:31:47,640
Congressional Library

696
00:31:53,870 --> 00:31:49,919
his Illusions became the property of his

697
00:31:56,690 --> 00:31:53,880
brother TF Vice and the secrets of his

698
00:31:59,630 --> 00:31:56,700
famous escapes are to be destroyed

699
00:32:02,269 --> 00:31:59,640
the library is very rich in works of

700
00:32:04,850 --> 00:32:02,279
Witchcraft magic and spiritualism and

701
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:04,860
also in Theatrical literature including

702
00:32:10,630 --> 00:32:08,399
the Diary of David Garrick which Houdini

703
00:32:13,850 --> 00:32:10,640
claimed to be the original manuscript

704
00:32:15,889 --> 00:32:13,860
and one of the few copies of Reginald

705
00:32:19,370 --> 00:32:15,899
Scott's discovery of Witchcraft

706
00:32:22,010 --> 00:32:19,380
published in 1584 and ordered to be

707
00:32:24,350 --> 00:32:22,020
burnt by King James the first he used to

708
00:32:27,529 --> 00:32:24,360
buy up from the dealers their whole

709
00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:27,539
stock of books on his pet subjects in

710
00:32:34,090 --> 00:32:30,720
the chief capitals

711
00:32:36,950 --> 00:32:34,100
an interesting Insight maybe into the

712
00:32:37,850 --> 00:32:36,960
thinking of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and

713
00:32:40,190 --> 00:32:37,860
again

714
00:32:42,169 --> 00:32:40,200
uh this is certainly something I've seen

715
00:32:44,930 --> 00:32:42,179
myself people who

716
00:32:48,049 --> 00:32:44,940
when baffled by a magic trick will leap

717
00:32:51,470 --> 00:32:48,059
to the Paranormal conclusion rather than

718
00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:51,480
oh I was fooled by a clever magic trick

719
00:32:58,190 --> 00:32:54,120
or should I say Conjuring

720
00:33:00,409 --> 00:32:58,200
and now in 1933 on the 22nd of March

721
00:33:03,230 --> 00:33:00,419
from the Evening News Rockhampton

722
00:33:05,389 --> 00:33:03,240
Queensland and this is now after the

723
00:33:08,330 --> 00:33:05,399
death of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

724
00:33:12,529 --> 00:33:08,340
the illusions of Houdini tricks that

725
00:33:15,350 --> 00:33:12,539
amazed Conan Doyle friendly enemies

726
00:33:17,090 --> 00:33:15,360
there can have been fewer stranger

727
00:33:20,750 --> 00:33:17,100
friendships than that between saratha

728
00:33:24,110 --> 00:33:20,760
Conan Doyle and Harry Houdini by all the

729
00:33:27,230 --> 00:33:24,120
rules Doyle the spiritualist and Houdini

730
00:33:30,110 --> 00:33:27,240
The Illusionist and escapologist should

731
00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:30,120
have been sworn enemies their beliefs

732
00:33:35,630 --> 00:33:32,820
were hostile and they argued for Years

733
00:33:39,470 --> 00:33:35,640
yet there was a real affection between

734
00:33:41,210 --> 00:33:39,480
the two men who were curiously childlike

735
00:33:44,110 --> 00:33:41,220
in some respects

736
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:44,120
some good stories about them are told in

737
00:33:51,889 --> 00:33:49,200
Houdini and Conan Doyle by Bernard m l

738
00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:51,899
Ernst and Hayward Carrington a book

739
00:33:56,269 --> 00:33:53,700
which will appeal equally to

740
00:33:58,669 --> 00:33:56,279
spiritualists and Skeptics

741
00:34:01,430 --> 00:33:58,679
while Houdini showed Doyle that he could

742
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,440
reproduce phenomena by trickery Doyle

743
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:04,260
was insisting that Houdini himself was

744
00:34:09,970 --> 00:34:07,200
the greatest medium of all time

745
00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:09,980
one day Houdini suspended a slate

746
00:34:16,310 --> 00:34:13,020
perpendicularly by wires in his room and

747
00:34:18,889 --> 00:34:16,320
placed a cork in a plate of white oil

748
00:34:21,649 --> 00:34:18,899
after Doyle had inspected everything

749
00:34:24,649 --> 00:34:21,659
Houdini asked him to go into the street

750
00:34:27,470 --> 00:34:24,659
and write a message on Note Paper Doyle

751
00:34:29,629 --> 00:34:27,480
walked three blocks away turned a corner

752
00:34:32,210 --> 00:34:29,639
wrote something on a piece of paper and

753
00:34:35,329 --> 00:34:32,220
put it back in his pocket he returned to

754
00:34:37,849 --> 00:34:35,339
Houdini who had a third person present

755
00:34:41,329 --> 00:34:37,859
to see that he did not leave the room

756
00:34:44,690 --> 00:34:41,339
after Doyle had returned Houdini placed

757
00:34:48,109 --> 00:34:44,700
the cork on the table as if by Magic it

758
00:34:53,389 --> 00:34:48,119
stuck there and then commenced writing

759
00:34:59,390 --> 00:34:55,430
now just briefly that's a phrase from

760
00:35:00,829 --> 00:34:59,400
the Bible which is a a warning of

761
00:35:05,089 --> 00:35:00,839
misfortune

762
00:35:07,310 --> 00:35:05,099
we read on Doyle was astounded for this

763
00:35:09,349 --> 00:35:07,320
was the message he had written in the

764
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:09,359
street and had not removed from his

765
00:35:14,089 --> 00:35:11,760
pocket this was the sort of thing which

766
00:35:17,569 --> 00:35:14,099
made Doyle attribute Supernatural powers

767
00:35:21,050 --> 00:35:17,579
to Houdini The Illusionist strenuously

768
00:35:22,190 --> 00:35:21,060
denied it but he never explained his

769
00:35:25,490 --> 00:35:22,200
illusions

770
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:25,500
and finally from 1933 on the 29th of

771
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:28,160
April in the Western Star and roma

772
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:31,680
Advertiser in Queensland Conan Doyle and

773
00:35:37,849 --> 00:35:35,400
Houdini in 1920 a remarkable friendship

774
00:35:40,790 --> 00:35:37,859
sprang up between zaratha Conan Doyle

775
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:40,800
and Houdini and continued during the

776
00:35:46,010 --> 00:35:43,260
last decade of their lives the chief

777
00:35:49,010 --> 00:35:46,020
Link in that friendship was spiritualism

778
00:35:51,790 --> 00:35:49,020
of which the Arthur Conan Doyle was an

779
00:35:55,569 --> 00:35:51,800
Earnest champion and Houdini the famous

780
00:35:59,030 --> 00:35:55,579
escaper and skeptical opponent

781
00:36:02,390 --> 00:35:59,040
in quote Houdini and Conan Doyle and

782
00:36:05,390 --> 00:36:02,400
quote Mr Bernard m l Ernst president of

783
00:36:07,849 --> 00:36:05,400
the parent assembly of the Society of

784
00:36:10,490 --> 00:36:07,859
American Magicians and Mr Harwood

785
00:36:12,890 --> 00:36:10,500
Carrington member for the society for

786
00:36:15,230 --> 00:36:12,900
psychical research give a detailed

787
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,240
analysis of the relationship based

788
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:18,000
chiefly on their correspondence zaratha

789
00:36:22,069 --> 00:36:19,680
Conan Doyle consistently tried to

790
00:36:24,170 --> 00:36:22,079
persuade Houdini that his so-called

791
00:36:27,410 --> 00:36:24,180
tricks must be due to psychic or

792
00:36:29,870 --> 00:36:27,420
Supernatural Powers Houdini reiterated

793
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:29,880
that they were tricks and nothing more

794
00:36:36,849 --> 00:36:33,000
achieved by purely physical and rational

795
00:36:39,890 --> 00:36:36,859
means and that the performances of

796
00:36:43,010 --> 00:36:39,900
mediums could be explained in the same

797
00:36:46,370 --> 00:36:43,020
way he also consulted Doyle as to the

798
00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:46,380
relative Bona fides of the mediums he

799
00:36:52,130 --> 00:36:49,920
should seek out and put to the test in

800
00:36:55,190 --> 00:36:52,140
the end neither could convince the other

801
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:55,200
of the rightness of his beliefs

802
00:37:01,670 --> 00:36:58,560
Sir Arthur Conan Doyle wrote to Houdini

803
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:01,680
my dear chap why go around the world

804
00:37:08,690 --> 00:37:04,560
seeking a demonstration of the occult

805
00:37:11,470 --> 00:37:08,700
when you are giving one all the time Mrs

806
00:37:14,510 --> 00:37:11,480
guppy a well-known medium could

807
00:37:18,349 --> 00:37:14,520
dematerialize and so could many folks in

808
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:18,359
holy writ and I do honestly believe that

809
00:37:25,010 --> 00:37:22,079
you can also my reason tells me that you

810
00:37:29,390 --> 00:37:25,020
have this wonderful power for there is

811
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:29,400
no alternative though I have no doubt

812
00:37:35,050 --> 00:37:32,640
that up to a point your strength and

813
00:37:38,089 --> 00:37:35,060
your skill are value

814
00:37:40,849 --> 00:37:38,099
Houdini's judgment on Doyle is summed up

815
00:37:43,750 --> 00:37:40,859
in a note in his memoranda he is

816
00:37:46,069 --> 00:37:43,760
good-natured very bright but a

817
00:37:48,890 --> 00:37:46,079
monotoniac on the subject of

818
00:37:52,010 --> 00:37:48,900
spiritualism being uninitiated in the

819
00:37:54,650 --> 00:37:52,020
world of mystery never having been

820
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,660
taught the artifacts of country it was

821
00:37:59,150 --> 00:37:56,880
the simplest thing in the world for

822
00:38:00,650 --> 00:37:59,160
anyone to gain his confidence to

823
00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:00,660
Hoodwink him

824
00:38:06,370 --> 00:38:02,960
what a fascinating

825
00:38:11,870 --> 00:38:06,380
relationship between two very famous men

826
00:38:14,270 --> 00:38:11,880
of very differing opinions and I just I

827
00:38:17,870 --> 00:38:14,280
was just reminded reading this and and

828
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:17,880
the last few uh the last few entries of

829
00:38:22,910 --> 00:38:20,400
the time I saw a trick almost 20 years

830
00:38:25,069 --> 00:38:22,920
ago and magicians will know this trick

831
00:38:26,930 --> 00:38:25,079
as the crazy man's handcuffs this is a

832
00:38:29,750 --> 00:38:26,940
trick with two rubber bands which appear

833
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:29,760
to melt through each other

834
00:38:34,790 --> 00:38:31,680
the first time I saw that trick was that

835
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:34,800
a skeptic's dinner here in Sydney my

836
00:38:40,250 --> 00:38:37,440
wonderful magician who sadly passed away

837
00:38:42,050 --> 00:38:40,260
some years ago Mr Steve Walker but

838
00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:42,060
anyway he did this trick in front of my

839
00:38:52,730 --> 00:38:47,280
eyes whereas and I for a moment thought

840
00:38:55,849 --> 00:38:52,740
to myself that cannot be that is simply

841
00:38:59,569 --> 00:38:55,859
impossible it cannot happen

842
00:39:03,109 --> 00:38:59,579
so maybe we can we can understand how

843
00:39:04,730 --> 00:39:03,119
some people are completely an athlete

844
00:39:08,030 --> 00:39:04,740
stumped

845
00:39:10,849 --> 00:39:08,040
when trying to find an explanation for

846
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:10,859
the seemingly impossible which after all

847
00:39:18,170 --> 00:39:12,800
is one of the aims

848
00:39:21,710 --> 00:39:20,450
Harry Houdini and saratha Conan Doyle

849
00:39:23,810 --> 00:39:21,720
one of the

850
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:23,820
fascinating reports

851
00:39:28,910 --> 00:39:26,160
series of reports listed in the

852
00:39:32,050 --> 00:39:28,920
Australian newspapers and magazines and

853
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:32,060
discoverable at Trove at

854
00:39:37,550 --> 00:39:34,260
trove.nla.gov dot a u because when you

855
00:39:41,540 --> 00:39:37,560
go there you never know what you might

856
00:39:57,849 --> 00:39:43,510
[Music]

857
00:40:02,450 --> 00:40:00,109
thank you for listening to the skeptic

858
00:40:04,609 --> 00:40:02,460
Zone podcast I'm still here at the

859
00:40:06,829 --> 00:40:04,619
weekend reason conferences going very

860
00:40:09,829 --> 00:40:06,839
well and I must say the audience were

861
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:09,839
very kind and laughed at some of my

862
00:40:13,370 --> 00:40:11,700
jokes during my talk

863
00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,380
thank you very much to all those people

864
00:40:18,829 --> 00:40:15,359
who continue to support the skeptic Zone

865
00:40:22,370 --> 00:40:18,839
at skepticzone.tv Via patreon or PayPal

866
00:40:25,250 --> 00:40:22,380
your contributions mean so much to the

867
00:40:28,430 --> 00:40:25,260
show and there would be no show Without

868
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,440
You wonderful people out there

869
00:40:32,410 --> 00:40:30,000
yes

870
00:40:35,569 --> 00:40:32,420
that's fantastic

871
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:35,579
coming up on next week's show I look

872
00:40:42,890 --> 00:40:39,839
via Trove at the fox sisters the famous

873
00:40:46,190 --> 00:40:42,900
sisters from the 1800s who fooled

874
00:40:46,970 --> 00:40:46,200
thousands by pretending to talk to the

875
00:40:49,130 --> 00:40:46,980
Dead

876
00:40:54,010 --> 00:40:49,140
all that and much more coming up on next

877
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,020
week's show but for this week from

878
00:40:59,150 --> 00:40:56,640
oh boy

879
00:41:01,430 --> 00:40:59,160
but this week as the conference starts

880
00:41:09,010 --> 00:41:01,440
again this is Richard Saunders signing

881
00:41:16,030 --> 00:41:11,390
you've been listening to the skeptic

882
00:41:18,370 --> 00:41:16,040
Zone podcast please visit our website at

883
00:41:21,470 --> 00:41:18,380
www.skepticzone.tv for show notes

884
00:41:25,069 --> 00:41:21,480
contacts and to access the back catalog

885
00:41:26,990 --> 00:41:25,079
of episodes going back to 2008.

886
00:41:30,530 --> 00:41:27,000
you can follow the skeptic Zone podcast

887
00:41:32,870 --> 00:41:30,540
on Twitter at skepticzone visit our

888
00:41:34,190 --> 00:41:32,880
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889
00:41:36,410 --> 00:41:34,200
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890
00:41:39,589 --> 00:41:36,420
you can also support the skeptic Zone

891
00:41:43,069 --> 00:41:39,599
via patreon or PayPal the skeptic Zone

892
00:41:44,750 --> 00:41:43,079
podcast is an independent production the

893
00:41:46,910 --> 00:41:44,760
views and opinions expressed on the

894
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:46,920
skeptic zone are not necessarily those